The Witness

 Hi Kalman,
                  Thanks again for taking the time to write back with an interesting, intelligent reply. Was the main passage about the numinous from C.S.Lewis? Maybe you should put a link on the Witness to the top books you recommend. Maybe I'll get that on kindle. I find the atheist writings to be refreshingly sceptical, asking the questions that Christians don't dare to, examining the side of the argument that the churches I've been to pretend doesn't exist. I feel like my thinking has grown & matured by reading Hitchens & co. I don't agree with all they say.
   I will never accept that a loving, good God could ask for Ab to sacrifice Isaac. In the Bible I see many times people mistaking their feelings of the numinous as being messages from God. Many religious leaders have done abominable acts following such feelings- look at Samuel killing Agag 1 Sam 15v33 or ordering the slaughter of all the animals 15v19etc. Look at the Ayatollahs. We never got any useful science from such feelings. I got my strongest sense of the spiritual & numinous when my thinking started to change & I started to conclude that there was no way the Bible could fit together, when I started comparing it closely with science fact and history of religion. When I read the Papyrus of Ani and saw the similarities in langugae & ideas. I think I get funny feelings when my brain finds new interesting ideas. I had never read atheist books before I concluded myself that there was no supernatural. I thought I had made a great new discovery for the world but then when I read Dawkins & co I discovered that it had all been thought of 100s of years ago..
  I believe a competent good God wouldn't have allowed a hell to come into existence or send anyone there. Eternal suffering for a 70 years life of human existence isn't fair or just. I think a good God wouldn't have acted like the Bible stories suggest.With Pharaoh Moses message should have been, ' Let my people go or you will die within the week and anyone who takes over will also die within the week if they fail to comply- from heart attack'. No need to wipe out others. It's just folklore anyway. God could have just made the Egyptians infertile, as Dan Barker points out- no need for any death.
    I still think the most important thing is to work for the well being of humanity, their welfare, health, happiness, to protect everyone from being abused, used as slaves, damaged by poor work practices, etc. The greatest of these is love. Or maybe it is science, technology & reason. Getting your plumbing fixed or car started is more useful than telling them you care but you can't fix stuff for them or feed them. There are however no easy solutions to a sustainable future. It is a trade off. Few seem willing & less are able to make a difference.

I think part of the problem stems from language, it is just too easy to generalize. Each side of the religious debate uses the same name calling, exaggerations, non specific, generalizations. Each calls the other evil or Biblically illiterate or calls each others arguments vacuous, facile. The atheist criticism of Christianity points to the murders done over doctrine,or 'failure to obey the Lord's command' but then the atheist side kick calls for Christians to be killed. I think that killing people & destroying books is absolutely not the answer. The answer is for everyone to read everything to get a balanced view. I think that people should try to be caring & not hurt anyone as a default position. As Richard Dawkins points out you really need to have read the Bible in order to understand where so many ideas in literature & song etc come from. Atheist comedians would be short of material if it wasn't for our religious past. I can see points in the bible i agree with, If you want to be told not to do something you will probably find a verse in the Bible telling you not to do it.

  I think these do not exist: demons, ghost, spirits, angels, resurrection. I am a Sadducee (act 23v8 , matt 22v23). Evil spirits do not exist. The ancient people  guessed about why people get ill & die & do bad things and came up with the evil spirit hypothesis. Now adays we have other explanations. Evil spirits aren't required for the equation. The Jews probably got their idea of demons from the Greek daemon idea. The Bible is a complete muddle about evil spirits anyway. I spent most of my life in crippling fear of the possibility of getting possessed by demons because my minister uncle supposedly had exorcised someone of a demon- he acted like they were real. You will only be troubled by such notions if you give them credence, I have no doubt some people have gone mad from the fear of the non existent. Just like people go round the bend with worry about hell- which I'm sure also does not exist, it is a myth from the Greeks & persians & Egyptians- the cultures Yahweh called evil.   I have tested my theory that demons don't exist. I have prayed to be demon possessed, for them to come into me. Nothing happened. Did I not believe strongly enough? I was crippled by worries about evil spirits when I was credulous of the idea, but when I became sceptical, questioned & investigated and found another hypothesis about where those ideas come from then I was healed. I am not troubled by those notions any more. Atheism healed me where trying to believe the promise from  'God' "do not fear for I am with you' didn't. i think I had a neurotic, fearful temperament from childhood anyway, that didn't help.
    I am a bit apprehensive about death inspite of my conclusion that I will probably cease to exist. Well this world is so bizarre, how can the universe have a beginning? But I will hold to all the reasons I have learned & that Christianity never did make sense to me. The night when I was 9ish that I feared hell & asked God into my life was for me a step down the road to paranoia. I think some christians have closed the doors from the inside and have locked themself into a fantasy world that doesn't exist. I have opened the dungeon doors and stepped out from Christianity into the light of reason. I still enjoy the Hillsongs & Witness tunes etc & I believe in the verses that point towards being loving & caring & law abiding. Infact I can see me heading for the same attitude as Robert Price where you enjoy the fantasy of it, the pagent, then you close the book or turn off the music and say "well that isn't reality". You can't make a joke about Christianity unless you know the believing view. I don't worry abou the lyrics in heavy metal cause I think Satan is just a fantasy, but i wouldn't listen to stuff that had noticeable lyrics about being abusive, murdering, swearing alot.
     If you got down this far, hope I haven't upset you too much. You seem like quite an open minded, sensible sort.
           regards Zytigon

Wholly ReWrit : The Euphoric One

November 21, 2010 - 11:20 AM The Euphoric one

You probably spotted "cupboard" in the text and you may say to yourself,"I suspect that should be wardrobe since it was about L,W&W or maybe coffin".Excellent, you have good, rational critical thinking. A christian however while also suspecting something wrong will have been reared to expect screams of "No, it is divine, immutable, inerrant word from the gods and if you change it you will immediately drop dead and burn in torture". So the poor chap thinks sod it I'll go and watch t.v. The super rational may wonder if I cunningly put cupboard there as a test? No,it was a typo, "I'm only human, born to make mistakes"(H.L.)Rational thought allows past errors to be corrected, upgraded or used to advantage. Same with the Bible. When seen in the light of evolution it becomes possibly one of the funniest writings. I think it will be a source of jokes for as long as humans don't go mad and burn everything. It will be important to preserve all the writings in connection to the bible especially the truely clever critical analysis, as well as the madly clever apologetics? They can help humans not to go off on another delusion. Properly read along side other primitive texts like the more honestly named book of the dead, the bible is a proof of evolution. It is time to stop trying to believe in christianity and graduate to an evolutionary understanding of the old texts November 21, 2010 - 02:53 AM The Happy one Dear Ken please help me decide what to put on my seasonal greetings this year. Here are the 3 options: Happy Christmas! The Jesus myth is dead and buried. Thank God! there is no supernatural to worry about, no'el? Hell no! Hell never existed either, that was a tale started off by the Egyptian priests pre 1500 BCE so that they could have a threat to control the population by. Christ almighty, who would have believed the bible? Don't be a fool for Christs sake, come on in, the water's lovely, lets have a party- forever more on earth. Not pie in the sky when you die, cake on the plate while you live! November 21, 2010 - 02:47 AM The Jubilant one Happy xMass, Jesus never existed! Whaa hoo, this is going to be the best Christlessmass ever. N.B to christians- don't worry, you don't have to rush out and sacrifice another human to save society from hell, hell never existed either, nor gods. Life evolved all by its self, there is no supenatural to worry about. Yee ha, Whaa hooo. Freedom from that cursed myth. Freedom from the poisoned apple that is the bible/christianity. Christ almighty, who would have thought I would live to see the day, the curse of winter is gone and summer is here. The hangover from the stoneage is gone. Jesus the wicked white witch is dead. Hooray for the lion hearts Dawkins, Humphreys, Doherty, Freke & Gandy, Mckinsey, Loftus, Barker, Greenberg et al November 21, 2010 - 02:37 AM The Euphoric one Happy Christlessmass! Father Christmas is here! Jesus the white witch is dead. The long winter for humanity is nearly over. He promised us power and endless Turkish delights in a never never land on the other side of the cupboard but it was all a lie. Christianity poisoned everything. The Abrahamic religions threatened the law of sin & death but Scientist and True bible scholars have looked further back in time to a deeper code. They have proved that we evolved without the aid of any conscious being- only mass-energy or vacuum fluctuation energy always existed. The religions have evolved from primitive superstitions. Christianity is largely based on the Osiris-Dionysus myth. Man created god in his own image. FREEDOM. The curse of winter is gone. Jesus is the new Guy fawkes, his non existence is the reason we party. Hell never existed, it was a myth invented by primitive priests to threaten people with so they could get their way. C.S Lewis wrote a cryptic message we misunderstood. He wrote a subliminal message telling us to believe in evolution, what a genius, who would have believed it! November 18, 2010 - 03:39 PM Reply comment to my jest, by who? Sieze yonder knave, who blasthemeth the BuyBull with his knavish sarcasm, and place him in the public pillory, yea, and pelteth him with rotten fruit, until he repenteth his e-vil,and joineth our amred militia, and go forth to battle to steal land from the demon savages...but wait until they feeed us and show us how to survive, yo..... November 16, 2010 - 03:13 PM Tickets 2 cosmic hell sorry, officially closed down by fraud squad, curses, by those do gooders; K Humphreys, R. Dawkins, S.Harris, C. Hitchens, J. Loftus, D.Barker, D. Mckinsey etc, curses, but you can still turn your life into a living hell by acting without due care and attention, ignoring health and safety legislation and your countries law, can't I tempt anyone? curses, I'm off for a quick one with God,,,chat that is;re Gen ch11, I'm sure he will share my enthusiasm to stop you gaining knowledge of the whole history of religion and a well rounded understanding of science. Then maybe our God squad will succeed in warping humanitys brain round our bronze age riddle, Tee hee, Why some creation "scientists" deny evolution even though genome mapping confirms the tree of life, and they say light went quicker before the flood, My God we are a genius, we'll bring you to another dark age yet, ha, yours deceitfully, Satan {just kidding,at least I can admit human authorship, unlike the bible} November 16, 2010 - 02:58 PM Tickets 2 heaven.com reduced-now only $10-used to cost all your spare money, a life of mental trauma, dull drudgery, mind bending attempts at changing the definition of most words in the bible, worry about whether you and your family would go to heaven or hell, ( self flagellation, optional for zealots) bulk discounts available 1000 for $1000 November 14, 2010 - 10:33 AM a christian Dear Jesus, I thank you for Ken leading me into the truth that you never existed.Lord it is only human to feel angry at being deceived, I confess that I am struggling with fury at this fraud. But Lord I will endeavour to forgive as I would be forgiven and realise that, like father like son, you would probably say it was all mans fault anyway & we should have twigged the joke when you were made to say Mk 9v1 &Matt 16v28 that you would return in 1st C. So Lord I will turn a blind eye to this indiscretion and having read "The Jesus Mysteries", now realise that you only ever existed in the heavenlies and will carry on as if this never happened. Jesus you will always be real to me, just like you were part of me, even though you never existed and the bible is mostly fiction. November 14, 2010 - 06:43 AM Atheist universe page 35, Interviewer: even though you don't believe that he was God, do you believe that Jesus Christ, the man, lived on Earth? David Mills: Probably not. If he did actually live, then He was almost certainly illiterate, since he left no writings of his own....it is curious to ponder an illiterate God I say Amen-Ra to Hmmms comments.David Mills in his Good Book: "Atheist Universe" asks in the chapter "The Myth of Hell"; who established the rule "without the shedding of blood, there can be no forgiveness of sin"?..."The fact that God supposedly demands blood before He offers forgiveness is indicative of the bestial mindset of the primitive cultures extant when the Bible was written. The Biblical God was created in man's own vengeful,bloodletting image".The truth is Hell does not exist and as Robert Ingersoll stated circa 1880C.E;"The myth of Hell represents all the revenge, cruelty and hatred of man"   It's true both sides of the argument should be voiced, what does that say about all the ministers who haven't told the other side? All ministers should read out "JNE" to their congregation along with John Loftus "why I became an atheist" and Dan Barker "godless". Compare Acts 5v15 where people expected to be healed by Peters shadow- to the ancient Egyptian belief that your shadow was your soul. Compare John 20v22 where Jesus breathes on his disciples for them to receive the Holy Spirit -to the Eyptian belief that your breath was your spirit. The Bible is full of primitive/false beliefs Mark ch10v17&18 a young man addresses Jesus as "good teacher", Jesus replies,"why do you call me good, no one is good- except God". Jesus should have said "The God/Word part of me is good but the physical human part is neutral". However if Jesus body was in the unfallen state (without sin) then it would have been good as "when the world was created God said it was good". So Jesus refusal to accept being called good implies his body was not neutral to good but maybe unrighteous? Maybe Jesus meant "look lads I'm only human like you" but they insisted "no, you are our Messiah". Probably that gospel author couldn't decide if he could make Jesus be God or not. That day he thought no. Near his beginning man created the gods, in mans own image he created them, they were a figment of his imagination but they ruled over him and terrorised him. The undue fear of these gods was the beginning of madness but brave men refused to heed the fearful and developed the tools of science and reasoning. They proved beyond doubt that this world is governed not by supernatural gods but by the laws of physics e.g thermodynamics. Mans main biological threat is germs not evil spirits. Worshipping goodness, love, truth, kindness as ideologies is of value but need to be balanced with a no- nonsense attitude. Moderation in all things. Modern laws are based on health and safety considerations as well as the aim to create an orderly society with equality and opportunity for self improvement   Why didn't God just say the Egyptians were right? I believe this is a fatal flaw for the Bible.Just shows what happens when you don't do your history homework. Remember the quip; Acts 7v22, the bible simply isn't true. Well that isn't fair, some bits are historical. Actually the Libyans wore side locks long before the Hebrews. I suppose it was difficult to find new ideas even then though? If you want an in depth theory of how the Egyptian beliefs merged with the Canaanite beliefs out of which the Hebrews religion emerged see Gary Greenberg "The Moses mystery" Thanks for seconding that. Here is The China Syndrome for the Bible: ACTS ch 7 v22 "Moses was educated in all the wisdom of the Egyptians". What wisdom? Well the Egyptians had mostly good social laws as reflected in The Negative Confession, they viewed pork as unclean, they practiced circumcision, they had a temple lay out similar to that later adopted by the Hebrews, they had ideas of afterlife, heaven/hell and a god of Judgement (Osiris),they had a type of monotheism as introduced by Akhenaten who also rejected the Osiris judgement. So if Moses knew all this already from the Egyptians then what was the story about going up Mt Sinai all about? The person who wrote words into Stephens mouth has made him "full of the Holy Spirt" confess that the old Testament core beliefs are a lie. You will note that all the above ideas are adopted by Moses. Also in Acts 7v38 Stephen says that it was "an angel" who spoke to Moses up Mt Sinai whereas in the O.T it was said to be God himself. Further where did the Egyptians get their wisom? I think they would claim their wisdom was inspired by their Gods- Re, Ptah, Osiris, Aten etc. So you could easily say that Moses followed the teachings of the Egyptian gods and his decision was confirmed by an angel up Mt Sinai. Quite surprising when you consider the O.T. is constantly calling the other gods evil. Maybe evil in the Bible just means competing? After all Yahweh was brother to Baal and probably quite jealous of his big Egyptian cousins too. An explanation for Moses up Sinai with God is that Moses had forgotten the Egyptian laws? Or maybe he just needed a photocopy? Maybe the O.T. is correct and the N.T. a lie? After all Rabbis wisely point out that Christianity is not supported by the Hebrew bible and Jesus didn't fit the criteria of Messiah. However Moses is also proven wrong in claiming his rules made the Hebrews different- they were copying the Egyptians. Why didn't God just simplify things by saying the Egyptians were righ... An alternative to a religious view is the view that all religions emerged out of previous religions which originally evolved out of primitive superstitions. i.e all religions are man made, there is no supernatural world, no hell, nothing in that department to fear.Probably we cease to exist at death. The earliest ideas about hell seem to originate in Egypt pre 1500BCE though there are signs from human burials that humans wondered about an afterlife pre 10,000BCE .Egyptians probably thought the moon was a god because they saw a face there. They thought their breath was their spirit and that their shadow was their soul. They were guessing! September 13, 2010 - 06:24 AM Oldest reference on JNE Thanks for your book "Jesus never existed". Thanks for being brave and writing it and publishing. I was brought up in a U.K church environment. I'm now 42. I finally concluded a couple of years ago there was no way the Bible could be put together rationally. At that point I started doing research about it on-line. I was shocked when I discovered that all the ministers I'd listened to had only told me 5% of the story about the history of world religions. Your book is an excellent all round summary- a real education. I'm really embarrassed, I'd thought I knew it all by my teenage but I hadn't even scratched the surface. Somehow I just trusted the ministers to tell me of anything untowards. Everyone should read your book then people might hopefully be less adamant about religion- when the evidence in favour is virtually nil. Even my school R.E was just a sunday school lesson. He didn't tell us there were libraries full of scholarly research and rational criticism of the Bible. I have also read Richard Dawkins God delusion which is also a work of genius. I can remember the impression I had as a child that the Bible was cold comfort and frightening craziness. Wish to god I'd thrown it out as nonsense, too bad I heeded the ministers threats. I believe you can't be fully sane until you stand against all the nonsense of the Bible and say "no" to it. There probably is no god. It is even more certain that a human sacrifice was never going to acheive anything. Keep up the good work.

Loving Humanist

January 10, 2011 - 03:13 PM loving humanist

The Bible says that no one has seen god and that satan deceives the world, so since it is no humans fault, a loving god would take everyone to a nice afterlife. January 10, 2011 - 03:06 PM loving humanist I find that Ken has written this site with a wonderful honesty and admirable sense of justice and fairness, also a good dose of humour. If there is hate voiced then it is against uncaring ideas & barbaric injustice in the Bible. [I hate when ministers try to tell you that when god asks you to sacrifice your child that that is just fine and dandy. No; it is insane ]. The hate is spoken from a normal, balanced sense of what it is to care and love, concern for the well being of fellow humans. Maybe a loving god would be insulted by anyone suggesting he would do the hell thing? Actually there are Christians who have enough conscience to stand against hateful interpretations of the Bible. The official doctrine of the Church of England (since 1995) states that there is no hell; no eternal torture, unbelievers just cease to exist.I'd guess many atheists would concur and continue with living their life in a reasonable way, as they see fit. Look at The independent on Sunday 15th Dec 1993 where Bishop Dr Jenkins said that unbelievers would not be tortured in hell but rather face annihilation. His stance was supported by Bishop of Bath and Rev J. Thompson. Dr Jenkins described the imagery re hell in Revelations as psychopathic. See the article on Wikipedia on annihilation, a view supported by John Stott, Bishop Charles Gore, William Temple, C.S Lewis, O.Quick, John Wenham, John Wesley, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Arnobius, Ignatius of Antioch. The N.T. ideas on hell possibly came from Greek influence e.g Plato or Persian. After a decade or two of Bible studies the really intelligent, loving ministers realise the Bible is errant but the average ones take much longer.People leave Christianity not from too little love but rather too much, the Bible and its picky Jesus is an embarrassment. Imagine winning the right to save everyone and then only picking a few. Saying,"forgive them for they don't know what they are doing"; yet promising not to. The bible says no one has seen god a... January 02, 2011 - 06:11 PM enquirer Just read Kens superb 'Resurrection of the Lord?' section with the brilliant observation about the stone didn't need to be rolled away since Jesus could pass through solid objects like doors. Reading the various accounts there about how many people went to the tomb I have a question: Do the accounts count days by the Gentile morning& evening =one day system, where as the True Jews would have counted evening& morning?? For Jesus disciples morning would not have been their start of a different day of the week? Maybe I'm wrong about this? December 31, 2010 - 12:06 PM me Come on Christians, tell us where heaven and hell are, in some other cosmic dimension? The Bible authors don't agree with you. Matt 12v40 'Jesus went down to the heart of the earth.' Ephesians 4v9 'Jesus descended to the depths of the earth.'Who now adays thinks hell is at the core of this planet, why would a soul go down there? Quick tell BP/Halliburton not to drill any deeper or all hell might break loose. Or maybe they will drill a tunnel for dead souls to escape back to life. Rev 20v13 Why would dead souls/spirits hang around in the oceans? Watch out fishermen, don't use too small a mesh or you might dredge up souls. Is that what Jesus meant by becoming fishers or men? Rev 21v1 Why would we need a new heaven if that is the undefiled place where God lives? They thought God lives among the stars.Why would we need another universe, just transport the saved to another planet? What was Gods Genesis plan when the earth became over populated since no one died? Why didn't He make it possible for humans to travel the universe at an appropriate time. Oh, after the fall he removed all the oxygen? December 25, 2010 - 06:25 AM me 1 John 3v15 "Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer". Well if that is true, then since the Bible is full of hatefilled language against those who don't hold its views, does that make God a murderer who doesn't have eternal life? [There is plenty of incitement to hatred or incitement to murder in the Bible,read revelation, look at the religious wars it has inspired as this website reminds us]. There should be freedom of speech and thought. What about Kens excellent C4 film of 19 Dec. Love your enemies isn't the appropriate response to 9/11. The tit for tat is a more successful tactic. The threat of don't do that, it isn't in your interest, we'll prosecute, we'll counter attack is what works. If that verse meant "see if you can negotiate a deal that removes your opponents desire to attack" then why didn't it say that. "love your enemy" could mean manythings, but mostly just daft things, as Ken points out. December 25, 2010 - 06:06 AM me See the Phil Plait,"don't be a dick" video of 13 Aug 2010 for part of the discussion on what is the good/effective way to conduct a debate. Phil says what the Bible authors don't quite manage to grasp about the use of name calling/ metaphor.He says it far more eloquently and clearly than vague Bible mumbojumbo. If Phil who is a skeptical thinker/atheist spoke those words in the first century then people might say he was inspired by God/Holy Spirit. They thought intelligent thought and happy feelings came to people by magic from heaven. They seemed to think people were puppets of good or evil spirits.Mostly people do destructive acts by accident in the heat of the moment/ while intoxicated or having failed to think through the likely consequences. How is it that Ken and Phil can think better/more rationally and clearly than the Bible authors? December 22, 2010 - 04:40 PM me The bible does not score highly on emotional literacy. 1 John 2v11, 3v15, 4v20 eg "Anyone who hates their brother is a murderer." I don't think so! To feel hatred or anger toward someone is miles away from murder. However unless you excercise self control and stop yourself obsessing about it I suppose it could push you to speak or act destructively. Some people respond to their anger by giving a good solution to the person causing it that gets the job done or sitution sorted. It could propel you to change job/relationship/home to get away . In any case what is meant by "I hate you"? Mostly this is a grossly exaggerated and inaccurate way to speak. What is usually meant is more accurately, "I hate what you did", "I am angry/ hurt about something that you have done or said", "I wish you had not done that, do not do that, I'm really upset that you won't allow me to do what I want", "I do not trust that person because they did somethings in the past which hurt me, so I try to avoid them". If you don't like the DJs voice or manner switch channel, it is just one of those things(chemistry) millions might like that DJ but their stile doesn't suit you. It is only reasonable to walk away. The question is whether you find a positive way to channel your hatred. Ok, make love your goal but the key thing is good decision making. Anyway there is a lot more to good communication than words used. The N.T. just reflects first century thought, not a higher divinity. December 12, 2010 - 02:10 AM Radio 2, Graham Norton listener Ken makes good points in "Jesus thinly drawn section".Nun Sister Wendy Beckett spoke on Radio 2 11/12/10 saying earliest icons of Jesus only go back to 600AD and have no connection with what Jesus physically looked like. She said Christian crusaders used to go into war with icons of Jesus as lucky mascots to help them defeat the Moslems but when the crusaders kept getting beaten the commanders wondered why and figured out it was because the Moslems didn't have graven images [which pleased God more?] so the icons were ordered to be destroyed. Talk about superstitious! Anyway how come though Jesus was supposedly well loved, no one made a sculpture, sketch or painting or kept a lock of hair or clothes from childhood or said "He was my great*7 uncle" December 08, 2010 - 05:44 PM S'aint Asin Pssst,want to know how to interpret a Pentecostal message 'spoken in tongues'? Well against my better judgement I will follow the example of WikiLeaks and yield to the temptation of revealing some secrets; Power to the people, down with church establishment! It could be you standing up to give the interpretation next time you are at a charismatic church: Eh yeh Ka kama la ma na coco sugalicky-- God I'm desperate for an ice-cream with chocolate flake Oh lama coopii er kam kana carling el sha assara fagii haven my---could someone nip down to the shop and get me a packet of cigarettes and a beer please. Shameran noni elohim ya kam khana standi sheitie---God that sermon was boring Adonai yir eh ca cha loo kat malakh adonai--God that woman in the front row is angelic December 07, 2010 - 05:32 PM St Isee C. Woe to you unbelievers! Is it not obvious that Christ had to delay his return until everyone had HDtv? Otherwise he would have appeared as only a tiny speck at 30,000ft, visible only to those chosen ones living under his flight path where it wasn't too cloudy. When he does return, in a few years/millenniums time, the spotter planes will fly alongside and beam back images, globally, to HD sets where they will see the Son & so the Father as He really is, in the full glory of HD.Are you ready for the 2nd coming of Christ? Woe to those who are not for they will weep and gnash teeth in frustration. But those good and faithful servants who believed in better and signed up to Sky+3DHDtv will declare,"Truly, Verily, Surely there is no better vision than this. This is virtual reality in all its richness; giving life in all its fullness. Come Lord Jesus come! Yes Lord yes. November 28, 2010 - 03:47 AM New Atheist Who is heathen? Is it those who blaspheme mainline established scientific fact and rational thought? Those who say that organic life started by magic 8000 years ago and a flood which happened everywhere except on Egyptian pyramids? Who are the miserable? Is it those too afraid of good&evil spirits to see the funny side of history. New Atheists rejoice in the sure and certain hope that the Bible is false on all significant points. New Atheists enjoy laughing their way through that funny book and in depth rational analysis of it, a thing that Christians appear to rarely do; they prefer the minister or bible notes to snatch a phrase out of it and stitch it into a whole different modern day life experience. But why not? If by some quark the mass-energy that always existed had a consciousness then it is still every bit as likely that humans would cease to exist at death or if not that all will have a positive outcome to look forward too. November 27, 2010 - 02:43 PM Archbishop Renouncey As we approach the glad time of celebrating the end of pagan myths like Jesus Osiris Dionysus Mithras Attis Bacchus, let us join together in singing new songs p v "No'el, No'el, Hell?NO! Hell no!, Hell never existed, no'el! Hell? No!" "Ding dong merrily on earth in brains the bells are ringing, Ding dong merrily on earth, with children's voices laughing; Ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha HA HA HA, hell never existed. Ha ha etc, Jesus likely never existed either. Ding dong merrily on earth, in brains the lights are switching on, ding dong merrily on earth, to the fact the Bible is disproven; Ha ha etc there's nothing there to fe'ar, Ha ha etc don't be a fool for Christs sake" Happy Christless mas everyone! Have the best party ever! And now, for the love of christ, go and be loving, caring and don't hurt anyone, for goodness sake, Amen-Ra November 25, 2010 - 01:55 AM Bob the yob The bible is so contrary and contradictory that sometimes its words swim around in my mind. In a mid night haze I sometimes find myself wondering if the gospel said,"Before the cock cum twice you shall deny me" and I can relate to that experience because often my wife denies me even before the cock has cum once, but this is a source of matrimonial acrimony so I shall quickly Passover the subject. November 21, 2010 - 11:46 AM cheeky chap Jesus said he'd return in the first century, maybe he's got cross with us and refused to return? That old greek was difficult to translate, maybe "come again" got miss spelt? No, probably not.

Conversion of Dick to Richard on Superhighway

January 18, 2011 - 03:10 PM Dick

Whilst surfing on the information superhighway between Jerusalem, Emmaus and Damascus, the vision of a great site shone out at me. It said to me,"Why are you persecuting others with that Jesus pish" "Who are you?", I enquired,"For I am a man in search of truth about Jesus, my social circle all rave that Jesus is right but I suspect something is false as it doesn't really make sense, so I am attracted to your alternative, if controversial, take on it" "I am JNE",the site replied,"I am a way for you to find the truth about the historicity of the bible & thereby attain rational life" "Lord I am wandering in this fog of christian delusion, I know not what I do, I see through a glass painted darkly by priestly tar, open my eyes that I might hear" I entered and as we travelled on together something like blinkers fell from my brain s eye. I felt something like relief well up within as I realised all significant bible claims were fiction. Joy, I have climbed out of that dark tomb of christianity, out of that hell hole. I have risen again, born a new atheist. JNE spoke,"Dick from now on you shall be called Richard"  January 17, 2011 - 03:59 PM Father O'Fluckerty I'll quote ye from my Wholly Irish Bible."In the beginning God created the world and said that it was good, but afterwards he realised that he'd forgotten to put an off switch for the sperm". Actually my wife wants to also put an off switch for my sex hormones, to which she'll hold the key. The desire for sex without conception has been a source of trouble (dilemma?) for most of human existence, until modern contraception. The dangers of childbirth pre modern medicine were huge and the risk of yet another child a constant worry. Maybe same sex relationships were one solution, another would have been to have two wives- one young &fertile , the other post menopausal. I think that the penis is the biggest evidence for evolution, but I can only speak for myself. Some young Christians read Pauls claim that he was content without a sexual relationship and think he had power from god to help him, but actually Paul was probably over 45 and suffering a natural drop in the steroid hormone Testosterone. As David Mills points out, without Testosterone people just aren't interested in sex. Some old people seem of forget, lose the thoughts that would let them relate to the lusts of youth. See Wikipedia page "because steroid hormones are so ubiquitous this suggests they have an ancient evolutionary history". Genesis hypothesis of difficulty in childbirth is disproved, reality- shift to walking upright compromised pelvis for ease of birthing. January 17, 2011 - 03:08 PM Easyflight Captian Biggles Christians and Atheists actually agree that an energy existed eternally. Does this energy have a consciousness? Christians say it is like Hitler, scary, confusing, threatening, unpredictable, killing for no reason.But perhaps benign to servile worshippers. Atheists say it is unlikely a caring energy would let us live so long in ignorance and suffering. Scientific advance has been driven by desperate need to improve living conditions and just the desire to make a living. So science should be enthroned as King of this world and those who swear allegiance are the Knights round the table who can go into all the world educating about scientific understanding & the whole history of religions & how the Bible falls apart when held up to the light of science & reason. Atheist have the words of everlasting mortal happiness- there is no supernatural to worry about. R Dawkins and K Humphreys can be Archbishops of ethical atheism. If you had defined being ethical, loving, caring as 'christianity' then ethical Atheism is the New Christianity. I beg your pardon Richard & Ken for the comparison. Actually I think atheism was always more ethical than christianity, after all they never made threats of eternal torture, neither did Judaism which was earthly punishment(they hold either you cease to exist or your flaws are burned away as you enter heaven, refined like gold) or Hinduism (threat of becoming a mouse) or Buddism. January 17, 2011 - 02:43 PM Easyflight Captain Courageous A good Millennium to you, thank you for joining us on board this flight into 21st century reality. I apologize to any Christians who may be flying with us today, as you may experience some turbulence as I take us through an outside loop in order to run the following proposition past you. Hold onto your seats and remember that evil spirits are fictional. However pop myth generally holds that they habitually lie and aim to deceive. So if they tell you something, you should be suspicious of it. Well, strange then that demons are prime advocates of the view the Jesus is,"The Holy One of God";luke4v34,"Jesus the Son of the Most High God";luke8v28&luke4v41. Well consider this scenario; Jesus is Satan incarnate. Satan is the pretender to the throne of Heaven and deceiver of the world. Satan/Jesus gets his colleagues to proclaim him Son of God to deceive people. This fits because Satan is into murder and would probably get a psychopathic kick from being crucified. It is also Satanic to threaten people with eternal concentration camp. Also the vain healing illusions V the failure to tell the world any of the medical knowledge we now enjoy e.g germ theory. Also that he deceived us about the structure of the universe. Also misanthropic philosophies & all the unethical things religion has done as listed by JNE coupled by the inability of so many to see the obvious Bible errors. Does this mean Satan is a reality? Well if you say Satan is a pseudonym for FALSE(ignorance) and God is a pseudonym for TRUTH(knowledge) then you might say Jesus was ignorance incarnate but I would say that Jesus is a mythic representation of the struggle between true and false. Science fact is vapourising Satan. see AntiCitizenX 'psychology of belief'on Youtube January 16, 2011 - 06:18 PM skygod Luke 4v25,"The heaven was shut up for 3.5 years" and so there was no rain (n.b. Good News version changed heaven to sky)Where has all the water in space gone? Where did the doors in the sky go? I'd read and believed that Yuri Gagarin said "I don't see any God up here" but I just read on Wikipedia that he never did. It was Khruschev who said,"Gagarin flew into space but didn't see and Got there". Funny how myths start. January 16, 2011 - 05:53 PM Textom quote Mark 1v10, "as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open." Obviously heaven can't be at the edge of the universe or the light would take forever to arrive at Jesus eye.Even the sky being torn open is nonsense.{he imagined it?} The Bible is a fictional fantasy. On rationalresponders site Textom writes, "The idea of god living in the sky is a Greek idea. Greeks gave up on the idea that the gods lived on Mt Olympus & instead pushed him back to the sky. In N.T. whenever 'Jesus' refers to Heaven that is a translation of the word ouranous that actually means sky. It was synonymous with the throne of god." Modern Christians are just doing the same thing as primitive people, pushing god back from sky to edge of the universe in an attempt to preserve their religion. This is how old religions mutate & warp and new ones emerge. January 14, 2011 - 05:59 PM Common Sense In Matthew 16v22 Peter says,"Never Lord, this shall never happen to you". The caring response Jesus should have made was,"Peter, I appreciate your care & concern for my well being", continuing in his oft insane way," You don't understand that god won't be motivated to save anyone unless I get murdered". Instead Jesus says to Peter,"Get behind me Satan". Here Jesus is saying that Satan speaks the words of care and consideration. No wonder people get confused by church. Common sense wants to say the passage is muddled & puts good for evil (elsewhere in the bible it says not to do this) but the minister is telling you Jesus is right. The bible is a list of failed hypothesis just like all the derelict medical practices. Jesus had much in common with a witch doctor of the ilk of darkest Africa, a shaman. As Ken says, 'Christianity has been a disaster for the world'. Christianity supports all the other superstitions. Can you believe in the bible god without believing in the devil too? Maybe it is the devil who sits at Gods right hand? Certainly does on the pages of the Bible. I believe neither exists January 14, 2011 - 05:16 PM Lovers contemplation If christians claim god is so vast as to have formed this universe then how come he couldn't protect humans from the devil? The chances of Satan falling from the edge of this universe 13,000 million light years away onto this tiny planet are much less than winning the Euromillions jackpot. 'Fall' would not be the appropriate word. How come God didn't zip faster than satan and protect adam and eve, put a fence round the tree or shout "stop right there". He managed to close the door after the horse bolted by putting angels to stop A&E re-entry. An almighty would have just terminated this universe as soon as satan fell (doing mc2=E) and restart. Or delete earth and use another planet. Even if God did save anyone by Jesus, why didn't he return 100AD as promised? To delay and thereby let millions go to hell is a worse crime/atrocity than Hitler did. A loving god would not have let any human go to hell. A good loving god would have created people who couldn't help but love him, like a fish to water, if they saw and knew him they would chose him. The Freewill argument is a dumb attempt to excuse gods injustice. The Bible describes an incompetent, neglectful, irresponsible god. In any case Genesis 3v22 says people didn't eat of eternal life, so since they don't exist forever they can't suffer after death. January 14, 2011 - 04:56 PM Lover of your life Jesus threats of eternal torture in hell were words of a nasty bully. In John 8v48 the Rabbi accused Jesus of speaking words of a demon. I believe that demons do not exist, but if you create a category in which you place bad ideas and actions and label it 'demonic' then Jesus ideas of eternal torture were demonic-i.e nasty, threatening, mentally abusive. This is especially so since god said he forechose and foreknew who would be saved. There was no need or advantage for the stick of hell. Jesus could just have said that unbelievers cease to exist but that the carrot of happily everafter exists for believers. Jesus could have said "Osiris myth is rubbish, I have ended hell, everyone is going to heaven". The Bible is the main reason people don't believe. The Bible says that God is bad and mad but I refuse to believe it. January 14, 2011 - 04:30 PM The devils advocate Allegedly, christ came to try to exocise demons, but I am here to exonerate them. Demons are not guilty of the crimes they have been accused of. They have never caused human illness. They have never caused 1- epileptic fits-those are caused by electrical malfunctions from the brain. 2-fevers- those are caused by bacteria, viruses and parasites.3-depression-that is caused by an imbalance of neurotransmitters such as the happiness hormone serotonine which can influence trains of thought- result in going over the same sore point (superstitious people call this unforgiveness) 4- they do not cause deafness or dumbness or blindness or death. Ask a doctor for a full explanation, bet she doesn't have demon possession as a category on her form!Another chief alibi I will use in my demons defence is that they were not even at the scene of the crimes. In fact I plead that they do not exist anywhere.Furthermore I charge christ with causing untold needless worry & fear leading to mental illness by frightening people with abominable threats of eternal torture and harm by my clients who couldn't hurt a fly or break off a bent reed or snuff out a candle. Yes christ is the guilty one [not unless you claim that a (non holy) ghost writer put those nasty threats into his mouth]. Your honour, I contend my clients are as innocent as a lamb. I Rest In Peace, my case January 10, 2011 - 03:20 PM me Actually I've worked out why Jesus said, "love your enemies": it is because he knew deep down that he had lost his way in a delusion and was advising his followers to seek help from an atheist who would restore them to normality. Listen to an atheist and you will find a friend indeed. Jesus life just demonstrates where his teachings will lead- ruining your life for nothing.

Bible LiesRus

January 19, 2011 - 02:38 PM Bible LiesRus

John 3v26 'Rabbi, that man [Just a vague,nameless man? Yet surely the 2 of Johns disciples from John 1v35 who heard John say Jesus was 1v36 'Lamb of God' would have told their co disciples 1v25 about Jesus. Part of the argument in 1v25 would surely have involved the 2 explaining that this was the wonderful Lamb of God] Back to John 3v26 'Rabbi, the man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan-the one you testified about-well, HE IS BAPTISING, and everyone is going to him' also John 3v22,'Jesus..baptised' contradicted by John 4v1 'IT WAS NOT JESUS WHO BAPTISED, but his disciples' John 1v37 I myself did not know Him [Didn't know who would be The Lamb of God or Didn't know who Jesus was?] But John he was your cousin remember? Luke 1v36 Mary is told,'Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a baby in her old age'. Mary went to see Liz and baby John leaped in her womb. v43 Liz says to M,'Why am I so favoured that the mother of my Lord should come to me'.Did Liz not tell her son John that Jesus was the Lord? Luke 1v32 Mary is told,'Jesus will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord will give him the throne of his father David'. Did Mary keep this a secret from her Nephew John? Just forgot? Didn't seem that important? Again what about the Christmas story for christ sake, didn't she tell John? Also Jesus never sat on throne of David, the Jewish throne didn't even exist by then.  January 19, 2011 - 01:45 PM Bible LiesRus John 10v41 'Though John never performed a miraculous sign.' contradicts Mark 6v14 'John the Baptist has been raised from the dead, that is why miraculous powers are at work in Jesus'. John never healed anyone so why would Herod think that Jesus was John? [Jesus must have been an obscure person prior to Johns arrest] Why would people think that raising John would give Jesus any powers? Didn't they know that John & Jesus were alive at the same time and so couldn't be each other? Hadn't they heard John said Jesus would be far greater? What about the heaven splitting open and the holy spirit dove coming down out of it, wasn't that a miraculous sign? NO ! BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENED. John 1v21 People asked John,'are you Elijah?', John replied,'I am not.' Well the Jews Messiah had to be preceded by the return/resurrection of Elijah, so Jesus was no Messiah then. Look at John 11v50-53 where the priests plot to murder Jesus for the sake of peace,v51'He did not say this on his own, but as high priest for that year he prophesied that Jesus would die'. So this author thinks if you plan to murder someone and then succeed, that that is a fulfillment of prophesy? That is just insane! January 19, 2011 - 01:22 PM Bible LiesRus John 11, The death of Lazarus at Bethany: v3 M&M send word, "Lord, the one you love is sick.", yet v6 'Jesus stayed where he was 2 more days.'Jesus waited for Lazarus to die! Is that sick or what? v17 'Jesus found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for 4 days.' What took Jesus so long-2 days journey- was he some far away place? John 10v40 tells us 'Jesus was across the Jordan at the place where John had been baptising in the early days. Here he stayed.' Where did John baptise in the early days? John 1v28 This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptising. So Jesus was within a mile of Bethany yet he took 4 days to get to Lazarus. He wouldn't go to heal a sick friend preferring to let him die- a neat if callous experiment Jesus. John maybe hadn't been taught that you should always read through what you've written before handing it in to teacher. January 19, 2011 - 02:52 PM JOHN Oh silly me, why did I need the holy spirit dove to come down on my cousin to identify him? I forgot what my mummy and Aunty Mary told me about my cousin Jesus being Lord & Son of the Most High & that he had been the baby Jesus in the Nativity. D'oh, I'd lose my head if it wasn't sewn on. January 18, 2011 - 04:09 PM The scales of love Jesus at banquet, woman comes to him crying, Luke 7v45 'Since the time I entered she has not stopped kissing my feet.' Well this is contradicted by v36 which has him at feast,reclining before her entry v37 has her go later, standing at his feet crying a while before kissing his feet. Anyway the normal, warm and wonderful thing to do would be to get up and ask her,"What is the matter? why are you crying? is there anything I can do to help? would you like to talk about it? The behaviour ascribed to Jesus where he treats her as a remote classroom specimen suggests it was authored by someone like a priest whose psychology had been corrupted by power such that he gets a twisted kick out of servile deference from his flock. This cold, proud, haughty behaviour might have been the norm of a 1st century megalomanical ruler but would be rightly despised today. I would not expect to have seen Ghandi, Mandela or Beckham behave like that.(though everyone has their ragged moments) Anyway the woman was probably terrified by one of his sick sermons. January 18, 2011 - 03:46 PM The Scales of love The question to ask when reading the bible is; what would be the loving, caring, 'warm and wonderful person' thing to do. See child Jesus in Temple Luke2v41-52. The respectful, honouring thing for Jesus to do would be to say to M&J,"I feel that God would have me stay on at the Temple for 4 days, will that be ok?" "Sure son, but who will you stay with and get home with?". Having failed that, the caring response on realising that M&J had left without him would be to ask someone to ride a horse or run to catch them up with a message. Having failed that, the next caring response would be to leave a message at the inn they had been staying at. He failed. Anyhow why would it take 3 days to find him in the village of Jerusalem? He couldn't really have made a big impression with his teaching or M&J would have easily found people who knew where Jesus was. On meeting them Jesus should have said,"Hi mum &Dad, I'm sorry I didn't ask permission and caused you worry and a long trek back" v50,'they didn't understand what he was saying.' Had they forgotten the virgin birth & angels? Mary treasured these things? What? Like 'why is my son giving me cheek/impudence, where did we go wrong?'.If the commandment said honour your parents then Jesus sinned?

Reason, Honest Joe Atheist

January 25, 2011 - 05:47 PM Reason

Religious groups should listen to each other. Here are the bits you should pick out of that spectrum. We should listen to Jewish folk when they say that Christ did not fit the criteria for their Messiah & that Christianity isn't supported by the O.T & that there is no eternal torture. We should listen to the Korans voice that Jesus was just an ordinary man. Moslems should listen to Christians when they talk of tolerance, love, mercy,liberty, freedom. Abrahamic religions should listen to Buddism and Jainism when they say there is no cosmic superpower god and the only god is within you. We should listen to freethinkers who say that reasoning is enough and that you just need to look at all the reasons pro and con before deciding. We should listen to the communists who said there is no god. Each should acknowledge the good ideas in the other group, the common ground and that we all strive to love our children. If you put this spectrum of ideas together you will arrive at the white light of Atheism. Atheism is the white light which shines out of the darkness. ps see atheerkt/Skepptiksowat youtube video of arabic speaking people who think atheism/ agnosticism is the way forward January 25, 2011 - 05:14 PM Honest Joe Atheist Don't listen to that twisted religious Norman Right. Realise that these cosmic characters are comic book, not real. Once you stop pretending and deceiving others and yourself that these gods exist then you can become truly honest. Athesim is the true goodliness, the truely humanitarian philosophy. It humbly accepts our animal ancestry in this vast, mysterious, wonderous universe. It appears that the eternal energy had no consciousness and certainly no conscience otherwise there would not be so much suffering in this world. If there did happen to be a loving being it would take everyone to a happy afterlife, it owes it to us after having made such an almighty mess of this world. see Truth-Saves , a humanist website that complements this site with its bible busting information. There is no absolute good and evil but on earth the nearest to absolute good is to be loving and caring, comply with the law, pay due taxes and pension contributions. The old bible laws are out of date and irrelevant. January 25, 2011 - 05:04 PM Noram Right Hey atheists, if that is the path you must go, if that is your fate, then I feel sorry for you, you have been deceived by the spirit of worldly intellect, rational thought & wisdom. If you had opened you heart to Christ my saviour then you would know the reassuring presence of his Holy spirt within you and the joy that comes from that promise of eternal life with him. I will pray for you. I believe that it is yet possible for you to turn and be saved from eternal torture, for all things are possible for Jesus my Lord. If you had the time and I had the space I would explain away all the apparent tensions in the Bible, but after judgement day though you plead for help, I shall not, unfortunately, even be able to pass you a glass of water. I know with my heart and confess with my tongue that Jesus Christ is Lord and sits at the right hand of Satan in heaven and his evil spirit fills the temple.Amen January 23, 2011 - 07:32 AM me I agree with Kens brilliant Luke v Matthew nativity analysis and that the star needed to be a helicopter.I just read site'lookinguntoJesus' which thinks it has solved the contradiction between MvL by supposing that Jesus was 1.5 & in Nazareth by time of Matthews star story. Matt invents that M&J were native to Bethlehem and J born there. See Matt2v22 why would they try to return to Judea/Bethl. after returning to Egypt if that wasn't their home town. Luke has M&J native to Nazareth &in Temple at 41 days old. Why would star have lead Magi to Herod 63 miles south of Nazareth? Matt 2v8 Herod sent Magi to Bethl. so the star then led them in a circle up north to Nazareth? If they were safe in Naz. then why would an angel of Matt2v13 tell them to flee to Egypt, Herod was obsessed with killing in Bethlehem, was he going to slaughter all Israel? Also Luke2v11&17&38 has shepherds and prophetess Anna tell a load of people in Temple and surrounding countryside about Christ the Lord. Yet when Herod called the Temple priests in Matt 2v4 they had totally forgotten about Jesus. Where were these fictions invented? Turkey or Rome? As Ken says p244 JNE Luke was around at Theophilus time of 170AD. Maybe Shepherd just told people "We saw baby in clothes in a manger"-the reply"Big deal, happens all the time", they forgot to say"He is Christ the Lord" January 22, 2011 - 02:04 PM Willy Shakes poiuyt Titsup ch1: Go therefore into all the world and preach this message of salvation from the nazti doctrine of hell virus & other religious delusions; that ideas about hell were developed in ancient Egypt, Persia & Greece before being adopted into some schools of Judaism for a while (200BCE-50CE?) before mutating into virulent forms in Christianity. If Christians had loved their enemy as the Bible quoted then they would have respectfully listened to the Rabbi telling them that eternal torture does not exist, {which might have ended that mentally abusive idea}. The closest Judaism gets to hell fires is a brief purifying fire which refines away your faults as you ascend to heaven (as ore to gold). Always be ready to explain your faith & point out to them the errors in their false doctrine. Tell them to burn their hell rather than their conscience & that it is immoral to make such nasti bullying threats. They might reply that they are doing good by saving people from it. Point out to them that they have no evidence it exists and that the 'Jesus' writers were just repeating things they'd heard in the cultural milieu which they probably didn't know the origin of. Origins which were certainly thought of as Pagan and evil by the O.T. January 21, 2011 - 06:22 PM Richard A slightly different take:Maybe the doctrine of eternal torture came into a school of Jewish thought 100BCE-30CE ?without the compensating negative confession to excuse peoples failings and allay their fears? The Jewish folk with their very strict laws thought,'Help!we are doomed because we have failed our own strict laws. What could be the solution? In steps the jewish lamb/messiah figure for forgiveness of sins which you offer up by believing in or enter into under the blood painted lintels, as in the Egyptian plagues myth. The midrashic Jews interpreted the idea of the messiah as bringing a heavenly reign as it was obvious the Kingdom of Israel was finished. The previous Jewish idea of what happened after you die had been very sketchy- maybe just ceasing to exist, for such a group to have the scary doctrine from greece, where ever, come in without a way of being sure they wouldn't end up there could have made some of them eager to accept a Jesus figure January 21, 2011 - 06:10 PM Richard Another take on what happened in the gospels: The priests have brought a dead man back to life on their tablet and made him say and do the things they wanted him to. Jesus is the ultimate Frankincensetein monster. Brought back from the ossuary as a solution to the worry about hell but has made a bigger problem. Actually this happens all the time. I was brought up in church where C.S. Lewis was held up and made to say that he supported their whole doctrine but Lewis never agreed with their Nazi doctrine of eternal torture, rather he believed in annihilationism for unbelievers, which is more the O.T Jewish view, see Ecc 9v5-6,Ecc 3v19-21,Job 7v9{got that from evilbible.com}. That is an example of a lie that those ministers told. I suppose they'd say it was done in love to help me believe and be saved or they just repeated what they were told. Also Einstein is used to support each side of the argument for and against the existence of God, but maybe the truth is that the two sides are both part of one argument and you need to know both sides to understand how Christianity formed soley from the inspiration of mortal men. Christians desperately cling to one segment of that glass wall which the whole argument is, the more you know, the less credible it becomes until the suckers lose their grip and slide off, but then you realise that there was nothing to fear anyway. January 21, 2011 - 05:46 PM John the B. Now that I have pulled myself together and am nearly human again. I wish to clear my name. Infact I never met a Jesus Lamb of God,but I probably baptised a lot of Yeshuas, it was one of the most common names then. I'm sure I would have remembered a Messiah. If someone had claimed he was the Messiah I'd have been like,"Yeh shua, pull the other leg mate, NEXT,the Messiah won't come until the return of Elijah and I'm not Elijah (John 1v21)Anyway God doesn't have a family, he killed them off around 700 BCE, even divorced Asherah his wife so how can he have a new son?. As for Mark 1v5,'ALL the people of Jerusalem came out to see me' well I liked to think I was popular but doubt if I saw ALL 50,000-250,000 people of Jerusalem, on the other hand I couldn't count so you never know. Few of us were literate back then bar rulers and priests, which was pure dead handy for making things up and getting away with it. By the way I also deny calling my baptismal guests 'brood of vipers', I would never have spoken so rudely. No, I probably said "Welcome dear friends, it is so nice of you to visit. How are you? Well I hope! Todays talk will be on anger management." However I may have got tired and grumpy at baptising 50,000 and light heartedly told them to sod off as I was going back to my cave for some me time, maybe they just took that they wrong way. [Ps this isn't really John the B. Dead men don't come back to life.] January 19, 2011 - 05:23 PM Humanity &co solicitors LLP 30ad Yeshua spoke to us,"Now firstly you must go immediately to the scribes and get 1000 copies of the daily diaries of miracles, teachings and visits I made. I am going to stay here & write down amazing knowledge that won't be confirmed by science for many years yet- such as the structure of this universe, germ theory,age of life on earth, evolution, the existence of fossils and dinosaurs, genetic theory (which will allow better crop breeding) crop nutrient requirements, contraceptive methods, plate techtonics, how earthquakes, volcanoes and weather works. Correct the O.T rules & history & fill in missing names Actually very firstly you must all come with me to see my empty tomb. There was great excitement among us. Thomas asked, "Yeshua, what was hell like?" "Pretty hellish actually, but realise this, I have saved everyone from hell, they will now all go to heaven, it is party time" "Phenomenal, but who will believe simple peasants like us, they might just ignore us and keep on with their Egyptian/Greek/Persian myth of eternal torture for all bar the arian elite",said Thomas."Ah,ha, don't think i am a fool, you fool, I am going to visit our priests & P.Pilot so they can see I am risen & sing to them,"I get knocked down but I get up again, you're never going to keep me down". Then I am going to do a whole of the known world tour encompassing the whole of Med. lands & that green and pleasant England; that they might sing in their future proms not with a ? but rather a ! And last but not least,dine with all relevant Caesars, royal families and historians." "Christ Yeshua, that will work", we all declared confidently January 19, 2011 - 05:02 PM Humanity &co solicitors LLP 36AD What will future generations expect of a competently written record of gospel events inspired by God? AUTHOR: Peter, family tree...DATE:18th year of Caesar Tiberius reign, three months after Christs resurrection. ADDRESS: village of Jerusalem, Humanity solicitors LLP. WITNESSES:Chief priest Rakinitin & The transformed to gentle P. Pilot.[I Peter hereby record my experience of the risen Christ; I was sleeping in the upper room of our house in Jerusalem by the north gate when I was woken by a knock at the door & booming voice,"Hello guys, let me in". I at once recognised it as the voice of my Lord,"Yeshua, is that you?" I cried."Yeh sure", Christ replied. I raced to the door, opened it & there was Christ. "Christ Almighty, you're naked, where are your clothes?",I asked. "Shit!I've left them back in my tomb, could you lend me a pair of boxers? my head was in the clouds" "Certainly Yeshua, wow, I can't believe you have risen from the grave, this is wonderful." "You fool, how many times have I told you I would & yet you still didn't expect it",responded Yeshua grinning widely."Don't call me a fool, as your teachings taught against, you fool & hypocrite", I parried with our usual witty banter" "No, ye be the evil hypocrite", jested Yeshua, a gleam in his eye. Anyway, the other 11 disciples were by this time crowding by the door."Well let me in",said Yeshua,"This is quite embarrassing, standing here in the growing dawn without even a fig leaf [damn that I cursed that fig tree that it died]" I heard a shrill whistle followed by Mary Ms voice,"Great Lord Almighty, you have risen indeed, Yeshua may I feel your presence within, may your willy be done." "No Mary, I musn't yield yet to temptation, it is not yet the time to come, I have too much work to do you. [sorry just realised that was 10 other disciples because I forgot to subtract me from total of 11]. We quickly let Yeshua in and I fetched him boxers to cover his glory. "Now firstly you m...

Wholly ReWrit Biblical Nonsense

February 06, 2011 - 02:04 PM Biblical Nonsense

Jason Long,p117 In his good chapter about how the Bible fails to condemn slavery, points to Noah; Genesis 9v20. Ham has noticed Noah lying naked and tells Shem and Japheth who take it upon themselves to put a towel over Noah. When Noah wakes he curses the son of Ham & his ancestors to SLAVERY. A normal balanced person would say,'oh thanks son' but Noah does the most unrighteous, unfair, barbaric thing possible by cursing generations to slavery. You'll notice the rest of the Bible including 'Jesus' never criticise this act.They read 'Noah was righteous' and repeat that parrot fashion, never evaluating for themselves. 2 Peter 2v5 says Noah was a preacher of righteousness. The Bible should have written,"You shall not beat/injure anyone working for you, you shall allow them to leave and work for someone else if they choose to, you will pay them at least a days food & shelter & clothes for 8 hours work". February 06, 2011 - 08:32 AM Anti Plato Christianity is a Trojan horse of psuedo-history wrapped up in a ribbon of 'love' that carries the brutal, mentally abusive doctrine of Tartarus. Before Plato/Socrates, 400BCE,the myth was that Zeus threw the Titans into Tartarus. It was Plato in his myth of Er who developed the idea that humans who committed crimes would also end up in Tartarus. Interesting to read about the gods Sisyphus, Persephone, Tantalus, Ixion and what they did to earn themselves a place in the Tartarus of Hades. Plato erred greatly by creating that idea. I also read the suggestion that Plato and Xenocrates developed the ideas about daemons and how they influenced thoughts, which later fed into Christian myth February 05, 2011 - 04:00 PM Biblos If you want a good laugh see biblos.com website that gives all versions of the bible, but look at Matt 15v2 where Jesus tells people not to bother washing their hands. Well the hilarious thing is that at the side, in the google ads column, there are ads for 'wash&glow taining kits-handwashing training','antibacterial hand wash, kills 99.9% bacteria','"Now wash your hands" signs' [ps there is a good wikipedia page on 'aramaic of Jesus', which shows Mark uses by far the most aramaic quotes, maybe he was the only one who spoke both aramaic and greek or the only one clever enough to think of adding a touch of authenticity or maybe the only one with an aramaic version of the Torah along with his Josephus guide to first century Israel] February 03, 2011 - 12:21 PM The unraveller How come we don't have Mark say,"I met Jesus and he had very short,tightly curled, black hair, his skin was of a very dark pigment,brown eyes,beaming white teeth, he was about 6ft tall. Mary and Joseph were both 5ft tall and fairly fair complexion and hair. This was proof indeed that Joseph was not the father. Jesus spoke Greek, Hebrew and aramaic. He often read the writings of Plato and Philo. In the Temple age 12 he read the Greek version Septuagint. How is it that there's so little detail that everything has to be guessed or other books scoured for answers? It wouldn't have been difficult to say which language each person who met Jesus spoke. On all important points the bible is dumb. John 19v30 has Jesus say"It is finished" but doesn't indicate he spoke in aramaic by giving the greek translation, neither luke 23v46, compare matt 27v46&mark15v33 which imply he spoke aramaic. Well that is proof he spoke both? Hey! since he was meant to be helpful he probably said,"Tetelestai" then,"ze gamur" to be sure his followers understood. February 03, 2011 - 11:40 AM Biblical nonsense The bible is a collection of proto thoughts. James 2v11 is one of the most twisted nonsensical, they probably meant something like; Even if you have not committed murder but have eaten a bacon sandwich then you have broken the laws and will suffer the 5th death, which is 10times as terrible as the 2nd death, in fact it is so shockingly awful in its enormity that it would be inhumane to tell you and break the Geneva convention to write it. Modern civilised laws distinguish between crimes with only serious crime leading to a prison sentence. Murder carries up to life in prison (to prevent the person doing another crime and to send a deterrent message). Adultery is not a criminal offence, but bigamy& perjury are. February 03, 2011 - 11:23 AM Questioner Acts 2v2 says the disciples were in a house and yet people from outside, scattered around Jerusalem heard them speaking. How did they know the disciples were from Galilee? How did anyone know where the foreign Jews came from? How could each know what the other had heard and understood? If the miracle was so convincing how come some thought they were drunk. Acts 2v17 said it would be ALL people who would receive the spirit. A real sign would have been that all converts started speaking Hebrew- the language of Yahweh or even better Peter could have said,"Before the return of Jesus there will be an industrial revolution, people will fly in the sky and land on moon, then the resources from underground will be depleted and the world will slip into a less glorious age." February 02, 2011 - 06:17 PM fictionalized history destroyer A good argument that all the original N.T. writings were done in Greek can be found at G.Minks refutation of sacrednamemovement under 'original N.T. written in Greek'. All 5000 fragments ever found are in Greek. Mel Gibson has Jesus speak in Aramaic. Question: Did Pilate speak to Jesus in Greek? Did 'Jesus'&co speak Greek? Corey Keating under 'why the N.T. was written in Greek' at ntgreek makes a good case that most people in Israel in first century spoke Greek. Jews around the Med. had the Greek Septuagint and most Jewish burial insciptions were in Greek. 'Jesus' has greek people speak to him. Keating concludes J&co would have been bilingual if they came from Galilee. So then in Acts 2v8 if Greek was the lingua franca why would they need a translation from what Peter said? Imagine scene:convert,"wow we can all understand him", cynic,"but isn't that cause we're all bilingual in Greek?",convert,"have you got to spoil all the miracles for me?" January 30, 2011 - 05:41 PM Sadduccees Luke 20v27 says that the Sadduccees,"Say there is no resurrection". I think the Sadducees represented the traditional ancient view of the priests who wrote the Torah/Septuagint pre 500BCE: that there was neither resurrection or hades or judgement of the dead. This verse is proof that 'Jesus' people were apostate from the ancient position. The Pharisees saw themselves as progressive, being led into deeper truths about the afterlife but infact were just accepting Egyptian/Greek ideas. This maybe from influence of Alexandrian Jews. Christians were maybe a further off shoot from the Pharisees. There was tension between them with the Pharisees calling them apostate (which they were having accepted alien doctrines of Hades/Tartarus, Egyptian afterlife, resurrection, judgement, godman). The N.T. ideas weren't inspired by Yahweh but came from the gods Osiris, Hades etc. The bible is the true story of peoples delusions with gods, a record of their fantasy dreamland and their hypotheses about why things happen. Hypotheses which have now been shown false. Moya K Mason 'Alexandria&the Hellenistic world' agrees with Kens account. January 30, 2011 - 09:50 AM religionfacts.com/judaism The afterlife in the Torah; for the most part, the Torah describes the afterlife in vague terms...an early theme is that death means rejoining ones ancestors..other imagery emphasizes the finality of death: the dead are like dust returning to dust Ecc3v19 or water poured out on the ground 2Sam 14v14....Taken together, these early biblical desciptions of death seem to indicate that the soul continues to exist in some way after death, but not consciously. TEHIYAT HAMEITIM: Resurrection of the dead. More developed concepts of the resurrection of the dead and afterlife seem to have entered Judaism under Hellenistic influence after the Torah was completed. It became one of the fundamental beliefs in rabbinic Judaism; the intellectual successors of the Pharisees. The Sadduccees,are noted in the N.T. denying there would be a resurrection {are these the traditionalists who resisted the new ideas from the Greeks etc}. Pharisees suggested "the dead will come up through the ground and rise up in Jerusalem, and the righteous fully clothed" [probably in Levi's] Reform Judaism rejects resurrection. January 28, 2011 - 06:14 PM me WHEN THE JEWISH HEBREW BIBLE WAS TRANSLATED INTO GREEK THEY USED THE WORD HADES IN PLACE OF SHEOL, this is perhaps where all the confusion came from. The main centre for Hellenistic Jews 300-200BCE was in Alexandria and it was here that the Hebrew bible was translated to Greek in stages, completed 130BCE January 28, 2011 - 05:33 PM the lost gospel of judas You've maybe never wondered what Yahwehs response was when jesus cried from the cross,'My God, my God why have you forsaken me'. Well I have just dug out the reply from among the lost gospels & I can see why the early christians wanted it lost. Yahweh replied,"Well how long have you got? I have quite a list here, but I'll read until you fall asleep. Firstly my commandment was 'you shall serve no other gods but Yahweh', well you served the evil god Hades by threatening people with Tartarus. This is a thing I never would have done, I might have struck them down with lightning or drowned them with flood or had them stoned but when they were dead I was kind enough to let them rest in peace. You have not honoured my name but rather blasphemed it by alleging that I could be more evil that Hitler. I am not as psychopathic as that. 2nd you taught people not to wash hands before eating, imagine all the illness that will cause if people copy you. 3rd I don't suppose it is a good time to tell you but I never had a son after killing off the other gods and my wife Asherah in 700BCE." and a cloud of black gloom hung over Jesus and he wept. But then God said,"don't worry, I'll look after you like I do sparrows; it's kind of fun to be extinct" (see 2 Peter 2v4 where the greek word Tartarus was actually the word used but in the english good news bible is written 'hell') January 28, 2011 - 04:38 PM JESUS SINNED Jesus sinned, here is why: In the first of the ten commandments Yahweh says Exodus 20v3 "You shall serve no other gods but me", well Jesus served the Greek god Hades by speaking Hades doctrine of eternal torture in hades/Tartarus. Jesus preached the doctrine of Hades. Jesus made the nazty threats of eternal torment in Hades underworld dungeon. Yahwehs doctrine was of sheol, Yahwehs words were that all men went to a benign underworld of silence and non-life, resting in peace. Jesus did not speak the words of Yahweh in heaven but rather the words of Hades in the underworld. For anyone gullible enough to worry about christianity this is the escape from Hade's Alcatraz This is the get out of hades free card. Jesus should have remembered you can't teach old gods new tricks. January 26, 2011 - 05:53 PM Prosecutor of Jesus the anti christ Firstly we must determine what god was Jesus the son of? Modern Bibles seem to have removed all the specific names of God so I begin to forget. Well you know the saying, like father like son, since Jesus allegedly preached eternal hell fire torture he obviously wasn't son good old Yahweh. Was Jesus the son of the god Hades or son of the god Osiris? Jesus was quite like Osiris in having a judgement day with a weighing of the heart and also a get out clause like T.N.C. However entry to Osiris heaven was easily bought by paying the priests to say the negative confession to clear you of blame for your indiscretions. Jesus on the other hand made an offer which up front sounded fairly simple, just believe in him, but unfortunately the small print was utterly bewildering and you are left unsure as to what to believe and wondering about your fate. Maybe not Osiris. What about Hades, well the Greeks had a reputation for brutality, think Spartans, so they probaly had a brutal hell, Yep, they had a part of hades called Tartarus, a deep gloomy part of Hades used as a dungeon of torment and suffering. To be fair though I think we will just have to leave a question mark over who was Jesus father. January 26, 2011 - 05:36 PM Defence for Yahweh The Old Bailey, Yahweh in the dock: Your honour, Yahweh has been condemned for the many acts of cruelty and injustice he has allegedly commanded/ authorised. However before you hastily sentence Him to the laughing stocks or extinction, may I plead a reprieve. After mulling over the case, I have realised this point in his defence. Yahweh was the God of the benign sheol; that place of non life, unknowingness, silence were everyone went. I find that aspect of Him praiseworthy in comparison to his more brutal neighbours. Yahweh denounced the gods like Osiris and Hades with their doctrines of eternal hell fire torture as evil. I find that I must applaud Him on that morally good, humane stance. If only we'd paid more heed to good old Yahweh how much mental anguish we'd have spared those simple,poorly read ,ignorant folk who were gullible and credulous of myths. Your honour, I plead you will show leniency and release Yahweh on bail that he might defend folk from more abusive delinquent gods and pretenders to His throne.